Gentlemen in the aisle, ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. We don't have much longer to go, but we do want to conclude this evening.

Madam Clerk, will you swear the witness.

BROWN McKEE, a witness herein, having first been duly sworn by a Clerk for the City of Clearwater, was examined and testified as follows:

MR. LeCHER:

What is your name, sir?

MR. McKEE:

Brown McKee.

MR. LeCHER:

Brown McKee, okay.

I must ask you the same five standard questions. Are you appearing here today to testify under oath voluntarily?

MR. McKEE:

Yes, I am.

MR. LeCHER:

Have you been paid by anyone, except expenses to come to Clearwater?

MR. McKEE:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Do you have a lawsuit against the Church of Scientology?

MR. McKEE:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Does the Church. of Scientology have a lawsuit against you?

MR. McKEE:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Has anyone suggested to you that you should state anything but the truth or has anyone suggested that you change your testimony for any reason?

MR. McKEE:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Thank you.

Mr. Flynn, do you want to present your witness?

MR. FLYNN:

Go ahead.

MR. McKEE:

I've been a Scientologist for twenty-four years; I'm what's called a field Scientologist. I'm not a member of the Sea Org., never have been. I operate or did operate groups in Connecticut called missions, which are autonomous Scientology groups. I left the Church in January of this year.

This is the second forum that I've been to in Clearwater recently. The first one being in December of last year, where a group of field persons such as myself, approximately fifty — we're all mission holders, we're the executives of the field groups — got together and demanded that officials of the Church and the Sea Org. be present to hear our protests and our demands for reform within the Church.

Now, this hearing went on for five days. And during this time, it was probably one of the most emotionally moving experiences I've ever had. I heard people give firsthand accounts of what they had experienced in Scientology; these are people still in Scientology, by the way. And I thought that some of my hardships were terrible, but after hearing those I found I really got off quite easy.

I heard a woman describe how her husband went to Flag when it was on the ship because he had a heart condition, and one of Hubbard's prescriptions for that is Vitamin E. And he came back, and according to her description — I knew the man, by the way — he came back a broken man and died two or three months later. And it's a little gory, but the autopsy showed his stomach to be filled with undissolved Vitamin E capsules.

Another mother was — spoke at this, and it was almost like, listening to a pregnant woman crazy with grief. Her daughter, who was a young mother, had — was also a field Scientologist running a group in Sacramento, California and had come to the Flag Base for the high-level auditing called NED for OTs, and had become so distressed and so upset that she kept calling her, "Come do something to help me." She couldn't travel from California to Clearwater because she was simply too ill. So couldn't do they something, couldn't she transfer her money to Los Angeles and get the auditing to help her? And they said, "No, we can't transfer the money."

Shortly after that, the young woman died. The autopsy disclosed it was from a ruptured pancreas, which I'm told is a stress-induced condition.

Hearing her mother who's an old, old friend of mine, as was the young woman, and her husband tell these things to the Church officials as examples of the inhumanity and complete lack of regard for the humanity of people of this so-called Church was one of the most difficult tasks that I had to ever sit through.

I probably have a reputation in Scientology as one of the more vocal malcontents. I've been pressing for some form of reform for many, many years.

After this meeting in December, we went back to Connecticut with the firm conviction that there was no interest within this Church for reform. The dirty tricks, the Guardian's Office operations, and that type of thing, which they told us were all a matter of the past, we found out were not a matter of the past. They tried to break up the meeting that we field people had called — they didn't call it — that we had called down here to try to get some of these things corrected.

Now, I've been a minister of this Church for some sixteen years, and I really took it seriously. I've married people, I've buried them, and to me it was a duty and an honor. And to find out what my Church had been doing — it's a little hard on me.

Now, there's one other point: And one of the main reasons why I wanted to be here is I see — I'm a professional auditor and case supervisor, and I've been doing for many years. I know what is taught and the technology of Ron Hubbard. I've heard his tapes by the hundreds and have read his book by the thousands. And I can quote almost anything you'd like quoted right now. I know what this man says about illness, and illness is cured only by auditing. That is not what is told to the public, but that is what is taught us, we, who are the practitioners and the ministers of the church.

The reason why I say this is because I believe it's dangerous. My late wife, Julie, and I were in Washington in 1977 taking training. And I had recent1y had one of — at that time had another one of my run-ins with a Guardian; they know my people to be vocal. And so, I was ordered to sec checks, security checking, and a guard posted on me and my wife, who was guilty because she was my wife.

I managed to get through the security check because I'm an expert security checker, and I know how to get through them. You learn these things — you know how to — we people in the field learn how to survive at the Flag Land Base and at the orgs.; we've learned the rules of the game, if you understand my point. We're — we don't walk in like a wide-eyed virgin walking into a military brothel; we've learned how to survive.

At any rate, this was a very, very hard thing on us because there was a degree of duress. And we went home kind of beaten. We didn't really — we didn't want to do anymore Scientology studying. And Julie complained of tiredness and this and that. Julie rarely ever complained of anything. But anyway, I saw her beginning to slow down, and by the summer of 1978, she, who was also a very highly trained auditor — and, also, you must is realize both of us were totally persuaded that the source of all illness was mental, except for, say, a broken leg, and the way of curing it is with auditing. This is what — it's our business.

So, during the summer, Julie lost more and more of her energy and had some swelling and some small chest pains and this and that and began to lose her voice. So, I thought, "Well, Flag has the best auditors in the world and should be able to help her out." So, I sent her down here to Clearwater in, I guess it was, October of 1978. We never even really thought about going to see a doctor; that's just not what — the Scientologist doesn't think about that.

Well, they sent her back a week later sicker and she couldn't speak for — she couldn't even whisper anymore. She'd write notes. So, I tapped on her back, because she was complaining about her chest, and on one side I could hear the sound of — the hollow sound that you hear when you tap, and the other side, it wasn't hollow. And so, I knew that there wasn't any air on that side.

So, we went to see a doctor, and he had her in the hospital very quickly. She was there two days when we were given the report. And what it was was adenocarcinoma, which was a cancer of the lymph glands of the lungs, and her right lung had totally collapsed, and which this cancer had also infiltrated her throat and paralyzed her vocal cords. And it had progressed to the point where it was totally hopeless. I mean, they didn't even suggest chemotherapy.

And they sent her home, and I cared for her for ten days. And she died in my arms. And I began to think a little bit about this type of thing at that point.

This type of thing isn't too easy to say, but I think that it's important that somebody say it. And this is what is taught the professional Scientologist. And by following the instructions and following what we work very hard to learn, it cost my wife her life. She may have died anyway; we don't know. If we had taken her to the doctor early, perhaps not. We can only speculate on that.

But what I do know is, because of my faith in this man, Ron Hubbard, she didn't have a chance.

MR. LeCHER:

One or — just a few questions from me.

Do you think the organization can survive a reform movement such as you want to initiate?

MR. McKEE:

The organization that you have heard about could not possibly survive a reform movement.

MR. LeCHER:

What percentage of the field people feel like you do?

MR. McKEE:

I would say ninety-five percent.

MR. LeCHER:

How would you describe the people that are left at Flag now, which is Clearwater, left running the organization, the Church?

Are they the —

MR. McKEE:

I can describe them all right; I just don't want to get sued.

MR. LeCHER:

Are they the old-timers like you —

MR. McKEE:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

 — that spent their — half their life or virtually their entire life with them, or are they the younger people that are —

MR. McKEE:

They're immature, ignorant, brainwashed religious zealots. That's my personal opinion.

MR. LeCHER:

Commissioners.

Yes, ma'am.

MRS. GARVEY:

Is there anything — you've been hearing the testimony for today — yesterday?

MR. McKEE:

Yes.

MRS. GARVEY:

Is there any single piece of information that we need to have yet? Or have we collected — have we asked all the right questions? Is everything clearly out in the open now?

MR. McKEE:

I think you've done a remarkable job of asking the proper questions and getting specific information.

The only protest that I personally have — and I'll say this before somebody says I can't — your task is — you have been operating limiting or restricting the hearings somewhat because you're discussing a Church and a religion — and you see, I'm a minister of this and I'm trained in it — and it didn't become religious or spiritual until it was necessary organizationally to gain First Amendment protection in the 1960's. Religion had nothing to do with it and still has nothing to do with it, in fact.

MRS. GARVEY:

Even though you consider yourself a minister?

MR. McKEE:

Yes, I'm a minister of the Church.

Look, in order to do that, I had to very carefully sort out what is a minister; it's one who cares, and I care for people. And so, I think I could qualify.

MR. LeCHER:

Mr. Hatchett.

MR. HATCHETT:

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Mr. Shoemaker.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Mr. McKee, the incident you described last December, you said that that was prompted by individuals such as yourself, demanding that that meeting be held?

MR. McKEE:

That's correct. It was called by two individuals who are field Scientologists, not Church members.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Are — approximately, how many of the field members attended that meeting?

MR. McKEE:

Well, we started out with about fifty on the first day — which was supposed to be a two-day meeting — and by the fifth day, there were about two hundred there.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

These were all — from all over the entire country that were expressing your concerns about the way that the operation at Flag was being carried out?

MR. McKEE:

All over the United States, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, and South Africa, yes. It was video taped by the Guardian's Office complete — or by the Sea Organization completely.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

What happened to the video tapes?

MR. McKEE:

And those tapes exist somewhere.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Did — was there any type of change that occurred after — from that meeting?

MR. McKEE:

Well, the highest officials showed up on the sixth day, and they didn't want any further comment. They, essentially, told us what we were going to be doing. I made the mistake, from their viewpoint, an organizational mistake of standing up and speaking anyway. And so, I was very quickly after that declared to be a Suppressive Person.

They implied some promises that there might be some changes with — and made one specific promise which was broken two weeks later.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

You were declared a public person — Suppressive Person after standing up and making your feelings known?

MR. McKEE:

That's correct.

They also declared — the date of the meeting was the first week in December of last year, and I was declared, I think, the second week of January.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Did they notify you of this? Or how did you find out that you were considered a Suppressive Person?

MR. McKEE:

When the US Guardian people came and gave me the piece of paper — laid the piece of paper on the table and said they'd like to handle me.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

And from that point, what was your response?

MR. McKEE:

Well, handle meant that I had to recant and apologize for everything I did, and I didn't have anything to apologize for. So, I said, "You're going to have to take your best shot because, not only am out but so are my groups."

MR. SHOEMAKER:

So, with your leaving, were there a number of others such as yourself that have also left the Church on that basic —

MR. McKEE:

I had — I ran two missions, was the Director for two missions in Connecticut of a total of about fifty active people, people that would come two or three times a week. Every single individual and every staff member left with me.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

In your two missions?

MR. McKEE:

Yes.

And my friends in Rochester also left.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Mr. McKee, the — I'm sure you've heard described over the last few days terrible situations relating to health conditions.

MR. McKEE:

Yes.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Are you — do you have any firsthand knowledge, relating to —

MR. McKEE:

Not firsthand knowledge; I've heard the stories.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

What —

MR. McKEE:

I haven't seen it.

I saw it on the Apollo; I was on the ship. And I saw the conditions on the ship; it was inhuman.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

Am I to understand that those types of conditions did not exist where you were in Connecticut  or —

MR. McKEE:

Oh, no. We didn't — no.

See, in the Church of Scientology like Boston, New York, or the Flag Land Base are Churches of Scientology. We are Church of Scientology Mission of New London, Connecticut, Church of Scientology Mission of.

I am the president of the corporation, and there are no members of the corporation that are not members of the group. It's a franchise group. It's like Connecticut's McDonald's franchise.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

You had indicated that you had problems off and on by the Guardian's Office.

Are you familiar — or aware of any — with firsthand knowledge in which they've attempted to obtain auditing files from you for use?

MR. McKEE:

Well, yes, I — in relation to the extraction of information for nefarious purposes, I do not have any firsthand information.

I always assumed that no one would ever dare touch a confessional folder. I wouldn't — since I heard that, which was not too long ago, I refused to send any folders.

MRS. GARVEY:

You mean, you did previously?

MR. SHOEMAKER:

You were before this?

MR. McKEE:

Oh, yes.

MR. SHOEMAKER:

And you sent those to Clearwater?

MR. McKEE:

Oh, yes, many, many.

I really — I have a very hard time believing anybody would do that.

MR. LeCHER:

Do the field people — are they aware —

MR. McKEE:

The confessions of people are guaranteed.

MR. LeCHER:

— of all the dirty tricks?

MR. McKEE:

No. There is a gradual awareness creeping in.

You have to realize that the information within the Scientology network is very restrictive. Not many people even read newspapers and, if they do, we're taught that this is only enemy attack. And it's really remarkable.

MR. LeCHER:

You were rather isolated, then, and is knew none of this existed?

MR. McKEE:

No, other than what our Connecticut —

MR. LeCHER:

Okay.

MR. McKEE:

We're not that isolated. We're just not quite that naive, maybe.

MR. LeCHER:

Do you have a copy of the paper declaring you a Suppressive Person?

MR. McKEE:

I don't think I have it with me.

MR. LeCHER:

But if we ask for it, could we get a copy of it?

MR. McKEE:

Absolutely.

MR. LeCHER:

Gentlemen on my left.

MR. BERFIELD:

Where was the meeting held?

MR. McKEE:

Where?

MR. BERFIELD:

Yes.

MR. McKEE:

At the Sand Castle. It's one of the hotels owned by the Sea Org.

MR. CALDERBANK:

What made you believe in the LRH technology? You were a good minister and an upstanding minister in the Church all the way up until a few months ago for over, I guess, twenty years —

MR. LeCHER:

Twenty-four years.

MR. CALDERBANK:

— twenty-four years.

What made you believe in it?

MR. McKEE:

Well, I could pass it off as stupidity, but the fact of the matter was that I had been training as an engineer. And the book, Dianetics, has a very logical development of the subject, and that appealed to my thought process very much. And the thing it promised, which — what I wanted, being only a so-so student, was a higher IQ.

MR. CALDERBANK:

They guaranteed you that?

MR. McKEE:

Yes.

MR. CALDERBANK:

Did you ever consider L. Ron Hubbard's background, the promises held out? You were an engineer. Did you believe him more because he was a nuclear physicist?

MR. McKEE:

Well, I never bit on that one because I do know a little bit about nuclear physics and mathematics. But I rendered the man some poetic license.

MR. CALDERBANK:

And my last question is: Do you think the belief in the technology would be hindered if this Flag Base was put under any type of financial scrutiny?

MR. McKEE:

That the technology would be hindered?

MR. CALDERBANK:

Yes.

MR. McKEE:

Absolutely not.

What little there is workable to it, which really isn't very much, would be all they would have left. And it would be a tremendous favor if that's all they could do.

MR. CALDERBANK:

You mean, that instead — or, in fact, it might help this thread or belief in this technology if there was some kind, of financial controls?

MRS. GARVEY:

For financial —

MR. MCKEE:

No. I 'd —

MR. CALDERBANK:

Strike that. Financial scrutiny.

MR. McKEE:

In my opinion, at this point in time, not only will Scientology no longer spread, it has stopped spreading about four years ago. By my observation — and I've observed quite a number of other missions, my own, and orgs. — it's shrinking rapidly.

And I think that if the idea of financial scrutiny is viable — and I think it would also be allowed by law, corporate law — that the funds are handled as prescribed by law for non-profit corporations — were that done, all they could do over there is service people.

MR. CALDERBANK:

And that would actually help?

MR. McKEE:

It would help the people. It would help the people, but the little neo-Nazi types wouldn't have anything to do.

MR. LeCHER:

Okay.

Mr. Berfield.

MR. BERFIELD :

No.

MR. LeCHER:

Do you have any other witnesses?

MR. FLYNN:

No.

What I'd like to do at this point, quickly — this is very vital to Mr. McKee's testimony and to everything else in this case.

If we could put on the — I mentioned at the outset in my opening the decree in the case of the United States v. Article or Device. The case, as I said, came down in [...]